Opinion | Dianne Morales’s N.Y.C. Mayor Endorsement Interview – The New York Times

So I think that’s what I mean about it. It’s hard to extrapolate one thing from the other. Yes, there are definitely documented cases, at least more documented cases of violence, particularly ethnic violence. But I think that those things are inextricably linked. I’m not sure that we can separate that.

[For years, New York has enjoyed a reputation for being the safest big city in the nation. But in 2020, homicides increased 41 percent and shootings increased more than 97 percent from 2019. Other cities around the country saw increases in gun violence, too, a trend most experts attribute to the trauma and upheaval caused by the pandemic.]

Brent Staples: I understand that, the social work aspect of what you’re talking about. I mean that sincerely. But don’t you believe that there is such a thing as criminal behavior? I mean, there are criminals on the streets with guns and they’re killing people. And basically what you have to do as a mayor — you are also a police person, you know. In a way that’s not abusive, but your job is to save people’s lives and police the city.

I think I respectfully disagree. I mean, I think that yes, to the first part of that, I think the mayor’s job is to save people’s lives. But I think that we can do that — We don’t have to do that through policing. I think that there is a way to save people’s lives by providing for them to actually live in such a way that they’re not at the point where they need to cause harm to others. I think there’s a lot of different interventions that we could be deploying in order to keep people safe and an exhaustive list of alternatives before we actually resort to policing.

And so, you know, I think that I don’t have a poker face. So the expression you saw on my face when you talked about the social work interventions, some of them may be social work interventions. But really what we’re talking about is human interventions. There has been a consistent and steady dehumanization of a significant percentage of New Yorkers, Black and brown communities, by the divesting that we’ve done in terms of the critical services that those people in those communities need to live a decent and dignified life. And to me, there’s a corresponding dehumanization that goes with that. And we need to start treating people like human beings if we want them to really act like human beings. And that means providing for them to be able to live in dignity. And I don’t think anybody’s asking — we’re not talking about handouts here. We’re just talking about really the equity and justice that we need in order for people to get a level playing field so that they can provide for themselves and their families.

Brent Staples: I’ll back off this, because we only have a short time. But one thing, as a longtime reporter and as a person of color living in America, I’ve lived in some pretty poor communities. Most people in every community are law-abiding people just trying to live. And doing that, despite poverty, despite not having services. But there are people in those communities that need to be taken off the street because they’re doing some really bad, evil things. And I don’t know how far you are going to get in this campaign if people ask you about crime, and you start talking about other things that, — you know, you might get to that eventually. But that’s just me.

I’ll respond to that if I may. I mean, I’d say I’ve gotten pretty far on this campaign talking about it this way. I don’t think anybody really expected us to get this far. And here we are. You know, that’s not to say that if someone murders someone else there shouldn’t be consequences. What I am suggesting is that we cannot speak to those things that happen in the moment without actually addressing and speaking to and recognizing and acknowledging the deeply rooted systemic and structural racism that exists in this country that has resulted in these deep disparities and inequities and the trauma in our communities, and the generations and generations of trauma.